Jim Groat has been a fixture of the furry fandom for more than 20 years. A regular fixture at many conventions, his works have included the iconic Red Shetland, Equine the Uncivil and the on going comic strip “WCOTP” named for “West Corner of the Park” now in it’s 11th year. We tracked Jim, down and after a brief tussle, some minor property damage and the loss of a shaved cat, we managed to get him to answer some questions…
Many people have heard of Jim Groat or your alter Ego, Rabbi Tom, but there’s so many myths and rumours around that it’s easy to get them confused. Let’s start by putting the record straight – Who are you and what was your life’s story up until you found the furry fandom?
I am me!! Who are you?
Growing up in a middle class family, father was a travelling salesman whom I really didn’t to know ‘til I was 16 since he was gone 48- 50 weeks out of the year. Mom was a asthma patient and victim of piss
poor drug planning with Cortizone and Prednizone.
I was the youngest in the family, youngest older sibling was 9 years older. Was basically a runt size-wise, and often the target of bullies. Probably why I detest nameless trolls and bullies behind computer screens…all cowards at heart and not willing to face directly their victims.
Growing up in the desert taught me life was harsh and yet flourished in terrible conditions.
Your last name is Scottish in origin correct? How much do you know
about your heritage?
I’m mainly Scot and German in ancestry, with a dash of Lakota Souix and maybe some French somewhere. I know my clan came up from Germany and came over in the Norman invasion of 1066, then they migrated up as far north as they could to a village called John O’Groats. Seems we’re a nasty lot of anti-social bastards!!
Lands End to John O’Groats is famously the path between the most southern and northern parts of Britain.
But fi! Enough Geography…Let’s continue the theme here and talk about life outside the fandom. What did you do day to day back then?
As a kid,I ran all over the desert , was heavily into motorcycling and motocross. Collected and landscaped my parents yard with vast cactus gardens and encouraged reptiles to live on the property. I was also
somewhat a loner, few wanted to hang out with a book worm. I was literally in High school what would be called today "Trenchcoat Mafia", except I wore a dear friends Vietnam cammies. I tended to hang
out with other guys who were victims of the jocks and druggies. We
soon learned that defending ourselves in what wasn’t the norm (IE:
Fists, kicking, shoving) we were expert in tossing accurately huge
hard dirt clods against our foes. later we discovered even a snake or
large lizard would freak these bullies out as well. I graduated high
school with my pet iguana on my shoulder, and to my surprize, to the
cheer of my graduating class. I manged to make AP wire photo with my
iguana on my shoulder.
That’s pretty impressive! From those days, how did you get into the furry fandom?
I always had a love of cartoon animals and anthropomorphics. Quick Draw McGraw was my favorite, followed by the Rankin Bass Rudolph the
Red nosed Reindeer.
Later in 1973….Disney’s Robin Hood came out…I
knew I really liked anthros at that point. I was already drawing cartoon dinosaurs at that point, my first comic strips. Then in 1980, Animalympics came out on HBO, the wide variety of animals used was instant favorite. In 1981 I went to an ASIFA event in LA and found others showing my interests in anthros.
John Cawley and Robert Hill introduced me to Marc Schirmeister, who got me started with Vootie… just as it died. But Marc later started Rowrbrazzle, and that just exploded in populatity. Networking with other anthro fans from there.
You’re married… with kids even! How did you and Rebekah meet up?
We met at Worldcon 88 in New Orleans, she was this woman with a massive length of hair and a love of anthro art, I would run into her again at the next Worldcons in 89, 91 . In Chicon 91, she bribed me
with chocolate chip cookies, I not had fresh chocolate chip cookies since my mom died in 88 at that point.
There’s an adage about getting to the heart via the stomach… How did your courtship of her come about?
I was invited out to Gencon in 92 – I was there cause Bunnies and Burrows by Steve Jackson games came out and I just did the art for it.
She was friendly to me, even though I was also interested in another artist at the time. I just remember her taking me to see Lake Michigan
and I walked into the lake to just above my knees…and got splashed.
Rebekah laughed at this, I ran out, grabbed her and carried her into
the lake, threatening to drop her in the water, but didn’t.
It was Worldcon 92 in Orlando a few weeks later that it got more serious.
I can’t believe someone wanted to ask this but… Is it true you’ve only have sex twice?
Actually….I think it was 3 times ;)
you stud! But enough talk of your carnal excesses… What’s is like being a rare breed in the fandom: Straight, married, and with children?
Like a freak honestly, I have hard core militant gays insult me and my wife for being ‘Breeders’, that our ’spawn’ are terrors. What pisses me off is, several still insist my son causes trouble at cons.
And ONCE…when he was FOUR years old, was told by another adult to smack a fursuiter, which, any child when told to do it by an adult, will cheerfully do as told.
They bring it up like it happens at every con.
Plus they’ve accused him of setting off fire alarms, when he was innocent and in several cases, not even at the hotel at the time.
Worst was at a MFM, and he was accused of shining laser pointers in the eyes of fursuiters and throwing items at people….he wasn’t even at the con!!! And the rumors still flow.
I have news for several of these people, not everybody is flaming gay, and a lot are having children on their own now, Those are the next generation of furry fans!
So that’s the man behind the myth, but not the only persona we know you as!
Who is Rabbi Tom? How did you come to create him?
Rabbi Tom was created to hide me on Furrymuck. I figured back in 93, that FM was even then a creepy place on occassion. I created a character that I figured would be safe from being a target of persistence. Who would want to screw a aardvark?
I chose the aardvark cause I really loved watching the Ant and the Aardvark shorts on the Pink Panther show and figured I run with a Jewish character.
It worked for a few years til somebody outed me on some chat board and by then I was entrenched in the character.
I remember those guys! So do you have any other characters? Perhaps one you’ve used prior to the Rabbi Tom persona?
My personal persona, the Jim Groat Goat character.. I really view myself more coyote-like in attitude and tried to draw up myself as one… but wasn’t happy with the designs. Then I heard my father was called "Billy Goat" as a youth…and that just clicked.
Man, I wish we had a picture of that. *sigh*. Oh well, moving swiftly on, do you have any alternate characters you play?
No. Though I’m toying creating a fresh character for FM.
Interesting! I’m sure you’ll shake things up!
You’re not just a character though you’re known for being an artist – Let’s talk about that. When and why did you start drawing?
I always was drawing, even as a child I drew anthropomorphic cars ala Pixar’s Cars, and always was the ‘class cartoonist’, I was even selling my cartoons in grade school – mainly dinosaurs. I really didn’t spread my interests til High school.
Everyone has to start somewhere!
But what inspires you to draw?
Antics in the park on FM, things I see or read, daydream up. Oddly enough, the late Paul Harvey gave me a load of material off his shows.
Money is a great inspiration too!
I’m saying nothing (But I am available for commissions, parties and assassinations). You mentioned being inspired by the events in the Park on FM, the infamous West Corner of the Park. When did you decide to turn that into a comic strip?
WCOTP started off as a joke against Chip Unicorn, but shelved, then I started drawing other things I witnessed in the park.
Phil "Bennie" Pollard offered to webhost and run the strip. It debuted in July of 97. I had to "document’ the stupidity I witnessed and share with others. It went off from there…God, has it almost been 12 years
already?
You stud! moving swiftly on from your debauched tales of carnality, one of the other things you’re known for is guns – Tell us if you would, about GunCon! Will you ever release any videos, like the infamous “Sesame St. Liberation Front” video that you performed a few years ago?
Guncon started in Madison Wisconsin as a excuse for a group of furries to get together and shoot stuff and target shoot.
Initially started small and grew from there. I also wanted it to be used as a educational means to show a group of gun skittish furs and even anti-gun types that guns will not just jump out and attack people.
I was able to get 10 previously anti-gun folks to become gun friendly
and even owners. In 2002 at the usual range were held Guncon at,
somebody had called the range claiming that we were going to film an
MTV Show out there with fursuits and shooting plushes…which wasn’t
true… well… the fursuit part and filming with MTV wasn’t true.
Shooting plushies was.
Seems the caller was really obsessed with the shooting plushies part, they repeated this ‘violation’ repeatedly according to the range master. The caller ID showed it was a St Louis number.
But despite our proven track record the previous 5 years of being good, the chance was too great and he shut us down. We tried again 6 weeks later, but that range was far too small for a sizeable crowd of shooters.
The next year I was GOH at RCFM and couldn’t continue. I want to start it again…but need a more reliable area and certainly privately owned to hold it. The videos…maybe.
Talking of conventions – Is it true you introduced Dr. Conway to the furry fandom? If so, how did that come about?
Seems a skinny college student came up to me at a furry party at Boston Worldcon in 89, and was curious about the fandom. I must have not freaked him out as a lifestyler would have today. I treated him as human being, not some geeky fanboy.
One of your moments of fame was being one of the masterminds behind the comic Red Shetland. How did that come about?
Red Shetland was a verbal joke that got put down on paper on January 1st 1983, it was in Equine #2 that Red officially made her comic début. Richard Konkle and I hashed out details and stories and in the summer of 89, Red got her own book. Admittedly even by himself, Richard is terrible at getting kickstarted into anything. So the book lapsed 8 years ago. Plans are to have Red Shetland return in graphic novel form.
That sounds exciting! But what of the barbarian hoss himself – What can you tell us about the creation of Equine the Uncivilized, and will there be any new Equine the Uncivil work?
Equine started when I started sketching a horse barbarian ala Conan. Richard ran with that and since we both were Conan fans, we created parodies of the series. In the summer of 84, we both decided to try and do a comic book and in the summer of 85 Equine came out.
Equine? Probably not…Red will in graphic novel. maybe in 2 years.
Talking of comics… You’ve met quite a number of syndicated comic artists. Where you ever
a member of the United Features Syndicate?
Any stories you’d like to share?
I met alot of syndicated comic strip folks over the years and no, never was a member of United Features.
I shared written communications with the late Gus Arroyo of ‘Gordo’ fame for years, It was at Angouleme in 92 where I met Bud Grace of ‘Ernie’ and ‘Paranah Club’ fame, where he discussed with me of getting back into syndication.
Bud was helpful in connecting me and in the summer of 93, he invited me to attend a NCS meeting in Scottsdale Arizona. I was allowed to invite one guest.
I thought it over and invited Michael Scot McMurry AKA Mcmoo to tag along. I knew I could trust him to not draw porn or act like an asshole before all these famous people.
It was at the ‘meet and greet’ the first night. I sat down at a outdoor table with McMoo, we were watching all these famous folks and we were also sketching. It was here a gray haired man sat down next to me, looked at the sketches I was doing and said "So, When’s the next Red Shetland coming out?"
I blinked, looked at the name badge…Charles Schultz, I stammered, blinking in disbelief and said something like "Holy shit!! You’re Schultz!" . He told me that his secretary was a avid reader of the comic and he had read it too and was hooked on the storyline. I kept calling him "Mr Schultz" and then thrust his hand in my face, shaking my hand and said "Please, my friends call me Sparky!"
I was in heaven!!! McMoo and I asked him all sorts of questions. I asked him what happened to Freida and her boneless cat? (She was just passed by simply, moved on) and what he did when he did a lame strip gag. He said "You will get duds, it can’t be winners all the time, you simply press on to the next strip and hope for more success." Wise words from the master himself.
A few minutes later I sat at the bar, and recognised a bearded gentleman next to me…Jeff MacNelly. Jeff was my all time favorite cartoonist. His attention to detail and draftsmanship was my inspiration, as was his wicked sense of humor.
His editorial cartoons and along with Pat Oliphant’s were the lions share of my art morgue. I told him this and basically fanboyed him sadly, but regained my composure and talked shop.
We both had a love for older cars and we both spent alot of time sketching cars on napkins. Then Jim Borgman of Zits fame came by along with Mike Peters of Mother Goose and Grimm and the 4 of us discussed shop. I was literally sitting with Pulitzer winners and being treated as an equal.
I met alot of cartoonists at that event, Lynn Johnson of For Better or Worse, she being Canadian was really REALLY Curious about guns… McMoo and I offered to take her out in the nearby desert and shoot a few guns.
She surprisingly took us up on this offer!!
Cathy Gutweisse, who created Cathy, told me how shocked she was that the syndicate took her on the first try. Bill Amend I joking chewed out for running with my Iguana gag I wanted to do…he was astonished I owned actual Iguanas.
Dick Locher, noted Pulitzer winner, editorial cartoonist and artist on Dick Tracy discussed the habits and tribulations of editorial cartooning. Chance Brown of Hagar the Horrible fame turned out to also be a Red Shetland reader and fan, and agreed to take part in the next Red Shetland calendar.
Morrie Turner of Wee Pals, Jonny Hart of BC, Bil Keane of Family Circus, Mort Walker from MAD magazine….lord I try and recall the others…and oddly enough, dealing with the incredible ego of Kevin Fagan of Drabble , was referred to as "His Holiness" along with Jim Davis, whom I did NOT meet.
The highlight was being personally invited to Bill Keane’s house for Dinner the next day. McMoo and I were in hog heaven and thrilled. We arrived 2 hours ahead of schedual, and finding out, many others did the same.
We were given the tour of the place and got to meet the various Keane Children…BTW, there never was a PJ. I meet Glen Keane there, and asked him about how PC was the upcoming film Pocahontas? he nodded sagely and said "Sadly….very politically correct." He wasn’t kidding.
I sat at the very desk Keane created his strips, saw the man literally curbed the market on a particular Higgens quill pen tip. His rec room was a museum of cartooning art, all signed to him! I looked at the Rueben Award he earned for his strips.
All in all, it was a memorable event. I did ‘hint’ at the book I had done up 2 years prior, without saying I was involved "Dysfunctional Family Circus". Turned out he had heard of it and was annoyed at it, but was clueless was behind it.
After the dinner, I told McMoo "I can’t do the DFC anymore, it would be like kicking my own grandfather." McMoo looked at me and said "Good, cause if you were going to continue it, I would personally hand you over to him."
Keane later on nailed a guy who took my books and put them on the web and made more on his own.
You have quite a collection of rarely seen animation. You mention above asking if Pocahontas was overly PC.. Any particular items you’d like to point out that are particularity non-politically correct, and is it true Disney has contacted you asking you not distribute some of these videos?
One cartoon I had gotten from an insider back in the early 80s was "Education for Death", I was informed via a contact that Disney knew I had it and marked the copy in a certain way , so if other copies went commercial or in bulk traded, they could tag me. I never made any copies and refused to allow any. Later Roy Disney released the cartoon on a wartime collections DVD set.
Moving back to comics you did personally, you actually had a syndicated strip. Can you tell us about Mudflatt?
Muddflat was my comic strip I had distributed through a long gone College papers syndicate.
Started it in late 1979 and managed to get it initially distributed to a dozen papers, mainly on the west coast. Muddflat was the story of a couple of College roommates who re-bumped into each other.
The main character was a polar bear named Fred Dangerbear…a quasi Dangerfield type, who hitched a ride south in the belly of a Grayhound Bus from Canada. Winding up in Wickenberg Arizona.
There he happens to find his ex-roomie, Hoss Williams and reassumes his role as roommate. I had Hoss as a drafted in the war Vietnam Vet who came home with Issues.
Along with others in the town, the crew basically had its ups and downs in storyline. I had the strips characters age with time like Gasoline Alley or For Better or Worse. Plus in 1980, I broached a not discussed problem, Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome which garnered me further attention and some slight controversy, since I wasn’t a Nam vet, yet I was discussing it.
I was relatively happy, numbers of papers increased, but an editor in some bay area paper kept changing my dialog to fit his needs and political beliefs. I repeatedly asked him to knock it off but was ignored. I finally in a sense threw a fit of rage and overall cancelled the strip instead of having the syndicate drop that one paper.
I feel my doing that as one of the stupidest things I ever did in my life (Rejecting a chance to attend Cal Arts was the first!) Plus in a fit of rage, I literally burned all my artwork I had drawn over the years. Only a few pieces survive, mainly in others hands. 3 years of strips torched in minutes, all my notes, character sheets, materials….burned.
Ack!Well hindsight’s 20/20, though that’s not very helpful. Here look into this neuralizer…
*flash*
… now, I have question for you, Mr. Groat, what other commercial work have you done? Small stuff or large stuff, for instance, what can you tell us about the comic book industry at large? Any run-ins with Marvel or DC?
I’ve done game designs for a few gaming companies and shirt houses. Plus a few menus.
I loathe anything tainted by Marvel comics, mainly how they treated and viewed the independent comics industry back in 1987 at a Diamond Comics trade show. To this day I will not own or watch anything Marvel (okay okay…I did love Ironman!).
Well I, Ron Man was great… I think we covered the comic arts a lot here, so lets sing around to a completely different topic – You’re a keen historian. Any particular war or event have you studied extensively?
WW2! I was a substitute teacher in Tucson on American History and art despite not having a degree, seems the principal was impressed I knew more than the teachers did when I was asked to give a lecture on cartooning and listened to a history lesson.
But I have a weakness for the Spanish American war, basically a forgotten time in US history, yet extremely important part of US history.
You got into war re-enactment I believe and also you have some guns, lots of guns. Are your collection and your love of history and re-enactment related?
I never joined the military, I got into a major motorcycle accident a week before I was to be inducted into the Navy, and always felt I should have served.
I got pushed eagerly into re-enactment through Scott Ruggels and that was fun.
Outside of actually getting shot with RL ammo, I got the feel of combat without the risk of death. I am hooked up with US 30th Division, US 3rd Division, British 6th Commando and British 5th paratroopers, and trying to get hooked up with German 10th Panzer.
I am heavily armed, how many is nobodies business but my own. The historian in me got me to collect the historical military weapons. the gun geek got the others in my collection. My favorite though is my Grandfathers Colt 1911 Pistol, along with my Krag Jorgensons.
You’re a standard fixture at cons, but are conventions the only time you travel? What is a typical con experience for you?
Depending on the con, folks think I go there to schmooze and have fun. No, its all business to me once I’m behind the table. If I can escape the table, I try and have fun, but rarely even see the dealers room I sit in.
Only Alaska is left of the 50 states I’ve yet to Visit. Worldwide, England, Scotland, France, Canada, Mexico, New Zealand (Aukland only) and Australia.
Where I would like to visit? Europe, mainly do a battlefield tour, the historian in me screams to do this. Ireland, Germany, Switzerland, Russia, Belgium, Italy, Normandy is a must, came really close in 92, but never could. I would love to get sponsored to Eurofurance!!!
I want to see the Maginot line, the horrors of Aushwitz and the fields of Flanders, walk the streets of Berlin.
Plus want to visit Japan, Korea and revisit Australia again, New Zealand, the holy lands of Egypt and Israel. Bermuda, Virgin Islands and visit Panama and see where my dad was stationed in WW2.
A pretty impressive list! Best of luck to you crossing them all off your list!
One of the other questions I have for you here is about the time you had a bit-part in Tombstone – would you like to talk about that?
I extra’d in several films – First was some shithole film called "The Great Ghost Dance", was in Revenge of the Nerds, Cannonball Run 2, Geromino and Tombstone.
Tombstone was nice cause I was what’s called a ‘featured extra’. Disney pays real good and feeds you well. The Bird Cage Theatre scene was my best scene of 7 I was in. I got to knock Jason Priestly about violently several times.
I think we’re getting to the end of this list! I’d like to clear up some stuff – For instance, what is a “Groatish Mauling”, and do you enjoy the “old codger rep’” you have?You got me, never heard the term before.
You got me, never heard the term before.
Yes and no…yes, cause the ‘yutes’ have approached me for the early history of the fandom. No, cause I will speak my mind and if you don’t like it…Cope!
Cor blimey guv. So, apparently being a yute o’ today, I’m going to drag myself off Twitter (Furry101 on Twitter BTW), facebook and my iPodPhoneDroid long enough to ask how do you feel the "fandom" has changed since the early days? What is your opinion of furry fans in general?
I recall the early days of the fandom, pre-internet days. It was honestly alot more fun, folks weren’t treating it as a lifestyle, but a fandom. Ears and tails weren’t seen, fursuits were mascots only. But then again, those early days the ‘room parties’ were folks crowded around a TV watching VHS tapes of Tiny Toons and Animalympics.
I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly sides of the fandom. I’ve seen fans bust their asses to help out a sick person, raise money to get dogs for the blind and assist in animal redemption at zoos/parks.
I have seen the perverts and porn fiends insist on making furry porn mainstream. I can draw decent art and hardly get any views on my FA page, add a dick, breasts or sex and the views skyrocket.
The ugly is the internet backstabbing and trolling via the safety of computer screens, the rumours and accusations being flung worldwide in seconds and the ones doing it for the LULZ and OMG Drama cause they think they are so badass and cool.
I even a few times had to ‘rescue’ mundanes at a con when some hyper lifestyler bounces up to them gushing all the wonders and ‘facts’ of Furry fandom, and watching the shocked horrified looks on the faces of the mundanes. I usually will step in and explain its a Sci Fi con and they mundanes ALWAYS ask about the ears and tails, plus the fursuits. I tell them its a LARP game called "Rabies". The ones in ears and tails are in the early stages of infection and the full fur suiters are wholly infected. That the "Head vampire" is the one to locate, and nobody is sure how far they are infected.
This seems to satisfy the mundanes all the time.
What gets me is the morons who insist showing upon in major public venues wearing ears, tails, insisting getting noticed and some cases, mocked. And they always wonder why the fandom is looked down upon and treated as a freak show
And since we’re out of questions, I think that about wraps it up! A big thanks to Jim for playing, wasn’t he great ladies and gentlemen? A big round of applause there…
If you’d like to know more, you can always…
Let’s start with getting a little background on you as a person. Who are you, and what is your life’s story up until you found the furry fandom? 
Christopher "Tyger" Roth. 
